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Janus Rainer (11-30-03) I: What we’ll start out by saying that this is Rick Storer interviewing Janus Rainier, the Grand Matriarch, at her home, in what town are we in? R: Jackson, New Jersey. I: Jackson, New Jersey on July 16, 2002. This interview is for the Leather Archives and Museum’s oral history records, which will be made available to researchers, writers, and scholars, and so you understand that people using the Archives will have access to this interview? R: Absolutely. I: OK, great. Beautiful, beautiful! So, before we talk about you, Janus Rainier—as Janus Rainier, the Grand Matriarch—maybe you could give us a little bit of history about where you grew up, what early family life… R: OK, I was born in the middle of New Jersey. I was the first born in a family of six children, of which three died, three of us survived, being the oldest I had the responsibilities of seeing the loss of these children in my home, which made me a very serious type youngster. I was an avid reader. At the age of five or six I was reading already, and I was into comic books. I used to read a lot of Superman comic books, and I had fantasies that young, involving the planet Kriptonite. And I had plans of owning that planet, and I used to say well I was going to punish the people by having them put in stocks—naked—in front of the populous as punishment when they did something wrong. So I had these bondage fantasies very young and didn’t really even understand them. There was a boy, Jackie, who lived around the corner, and he wanted to join my club. I had an only-for-girls club. So I made him embroider a scarf with OFG to wear, and I didn’t think he was going to do it, but he did, with a chain stitch, so we had to admit him in the club. And then I decided that the club would have to have an initiation if boys were going to come into the club. And my mother worked during the day. So, we had Jackie come in the house, and the three other girls in the club, we took all my mother’s plastic belts, and we had him unbuckle his pants and jump up and down on the bed while we whipped him with the belts until his pants fell down. And then he was an official member, but his mother wouldn’t let him come out and play with us anymore for the rest of the summer. So Jackie would have to meet me secretly in the little park a couple of blocks away to play with me. And he followed me…I found out later in life he became a transvestite, and that he always remembered me. I: So you kept in contact with him? R: Well, actually I ran into him by accident. I: Oh, OK. R: I ran into him at one of the gay leather pride events. And, he looked familiar, and we started talking, and then we realized we knew each other, and we laughed, we recounted that stuff. I: Oh, neat. So, did you grow up in New Jersey? R: No, I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. I: Oh, OK. R: You can see the accent, I have an accent. I: I can! R: And Brooklyn’s kind of a tough place. If you’re not strong, you’ll get trampled, and girls learn at a very young age how to be tough. I: Neat, neat. So, when did you, as you were growing up, when did you realize that there was a community or a group of people, there were other people all over the place, who were into these Superman fantasies, or the all-girls-club that you had as a little girl? R: I didn’t have a clue. I got married, I went into a straight marriage, a vanilla marriage, I had no idea until I was cleaning the bathroom, and most people know in the old bathroom sinks there’s a hole in the back of it, I don’t know whatever possessed me, but I stuck my hand in there, and I found a bunch of Screw publications! That my husband was hiding, and I pulled them out, and I saw that the pages were wet, where there was a story on animals. So I confronted him, I found out he was into this stuff, so we discussed it, and I really wasn’t into it, but it had opened my world into that area, and I soon found out after this that my husband was bi-sexual, and that caused a lot of conflict in my relationship because then I was very mistrusting of him when he was with his friends, I didn’t know which friends, who was straight, who was gay, who was bi-sexual, what was going on, and eventually the relationship terminated. And I needed to earn money. I had two children to support. And I met somebody who likened himself to Jack London as a writer, in the fetish market, and he asked me if I would write for him, little stories, and he would pay me $25.00 a story, and at that time that was fabulous, so I would write these three or four page stories, and I started writing about different fetishes, not really understanding them, but kind of like relating to my own sexual responses in regards to fetish, and reading about it, and then I started realizing that I did have some of these bondage fantasies, and stuff, that went back to when I was a child looking at comic books, and tying up my brothers, and always wanted to run in and help my grandmother by tying up the packages that she was sending to Europe, but I always had this fascination for ropes, and cords, and things like that. And I had this friend Kenny who was a very young, gay fellow. And He used to cruise the Upper East Side—at one time that was that was the big place for what they used to call chickens, young boys that used to solicit older men, and I was very concerned about Kenny, and, you know, I kind of took him off the street and told him look, you know, if you really want to do this you should find one man, and all these things, and he found this guy, I’m not gonna mention his name, a very wealthy stock broker, who took care of him, and Kenny saw that I was putting these stories together, and he said you know Janus, why don’t you put a little booklet together, and he bought me this repitograph machine, stencil machine. I: Oh, OK. Yeah. R: All right, and we photocopied a cover, and put up some stories and some ads together, and we got this electric stapler, and we made 1000 copies, and we went up on Times Square, and it was Dominatrix Domain, the first issue, it was very small, 5˝, by 4˝ inches, and a thousand of them sold out within two hours on Times Square. We were getting 75˘ a piece for them. So we made 500 again real fast with the left over paper, and we went back and unloaded them, and met a guy who referred them to a distributor. Then I went to the distributor, and he was a local distributor, and he said I think you should go see my brother who’s a national distributor in the next building. And we went there, the guy was very busy, and they wouldn’t let us in his offices, but Kenny cornered him in an elevator and he said I’ll give you five minutes, and he made him, he showed him the booklet and they made an appointment to meet me. Well I went to see this guy, and he was very standoffish, but polite. And while I was looking at him he had a ring around his finger, and I said I’ve seen that ring before. He said no you haven’t there’s only two of them in the world. I said oh yes, my friend Marty has one, I met him from years ago from Brooklyn…and he said that’s the other ring! And he called Marty who’s now in Florida, and he verified who I was, and he said you know what, I’m going to give you a shot. Put one of these magazines together, but you make it bigger, and he said you make it 52 pages, and he gave me the color pages, and he said you come back in a month, and I’ll try it. And we rolled out my first publication of Dominatrix Domain, that went national and it sold out. And in the beginning I was getting a royalty, a quarter for each book, plus x amount for... But I was so timid at that point, and so grateful for the opportunity to earn money because I got the mail order, but I brought in three or four books a minute… And then about a year and a half had passed, and I finally said to him well am I ever gonna get any of these royalties? And he went in and opened the books and he couldn’t believe it. It amounted to thousands of dollars. I: Oh my God! R: And he says I can’t believe this. There’s such a huge market for this. I didn’t know this market existed! And, you know, then I started creating more and more magazines, ‘til I built it up so there were 32 publications and two newspapers. I: Were there any pictures or drawings? Or were these strictly stories? R: Yes, there were first there were stories and line art, then I incorporated photographs, then I started contacting women all over the Unites States, they were giving me their material, I was shooting other people, Then I started hiring professional photographers. My brothers were in college, and they were learning video and film, I took their books and started reading them, and learned myself, and I went into video. And I went to the distributor, and he made loads of money in film. “Listen to me, I’ll.give you an opportunity,” he said, “She’s gonna teach you video, in turn you’re gonna teach her how to make movies.” So I made heterosexual movies, and but then my love was for the fetish, so I went into the fetish, and I found a distributor through this guy, Video Home Library, my first library, that launched my first few movies. And they made money for him, but they bought outright, I didn’t make anything. I got my actual investment to create the movies, which was great to me. And I had met a man who at the time I did not know was a criminal, I thought he was an independent entrepreneur, and invested in video equipment for me, to learn, then I bought the equipment from him used, and about three months later I saw him in the news. He had, he was, worked for Prudential Bank, and had been arrested for stealing 84 million dollars from them, so I assume that the money he was marketing to the entire fetish industry in everywhere, must have been some of those moneys. I: Yeah. R: You know, I had been interviewed by the FBI in relationship to him, but they said that, you know, since I had a receipt to buy the machinery, I was not subject to any situation, and I really had no information about the act, the crime the man had committed, or his business associates, but I never faulted John for that because as a person he was a nice guy. I didn’t know that side of him. I: Right. R: So I felt that he always gave me my opportunity to learn video. And I moved into the video era, and I created Starmaker, and then I met another gentleman called Don Alexander, who was a very wealthy man, who is a former military man, and business man, who made his fortune primarily on the toxic waste that the government wanted to get rid of. He bought and invented the women’s permanent wave! And he made money on royalties on permanent waves, and then sold this company to the Japanese that set him up for a lifetime of retirement money. I: Oh, OK. R: All right, and he invested in Starmaker Video. Which launched my video company. And that’s where I had the opportunity to express most my fantasies in video. I: So where in this sequence of events of the publication and then into videos did Janus Rainier, the Grand Matriarch, become to be? R: I was creating the magazines, and I was starting to interview and meet people in the scene, I was sponsoring little parties, at that time there was a place in the Village called Another Way to Love, which was Leo Louns and a fellow named Chip, and they were expressing little scenarios about fetish, and I met a small group of people there, ‘cause they had like a group of people that would come together and give input on skits, and things like that, and I met this fellow named Gary, he looked like a gnome, he was about 4’10”, I used to think he was such a magical gnome. He was in the film industry in very strange movies like Black Sunday, he input on Children of the Corn, and weird stuff like that, you know. And he used to call me Grand Matriarch, Grand Matriarch, all the time. And then everybody started calling me this, and it just kind of stuck. So then in the fetish world I was the Grand Matriarch, but in the film world I was Janus Rainier. So I had two different personas. And both characters made it, in the adult industry. And then I kind of like brought the two names together, because a lot of people didn’t know that they were one and the same. I: They thought these were two different people… R: People, they thought Janus Rainier was this man, who was making movies, I had done that, taken a male name because women were not in the porn industry at that time, behind the camera, and they were not well received, and I had two minor children, and I was really afraid that somebody would take them away from me, so I projected this male name, and this male image, and it actually opened the door so people would buy these movies, because they would allow a man’s product to come in to the distribution houses, and all the way down the line, and it was well received in Europe, and actually I became more popular in film in Europe than in the United States. I won the Mirimax Best Fetish Award in 1995. I: What country is that in? R: Belgium. I: Oh, OK. R: OK, I sold movies to Orion Films, I’ve sold movies into Paris, I sold 91 films into Japan. And you know, so in Japan and Europe, as a film maker I became well known. My publications in the United States primarily gave me the reputation as the Grand Matriarch. And then I brought the two names together. And I didn’t actually start doing actual fetish myself until 14 years into my film and publishing career, because I was living my fantasies and stuff through others. I: You knew in your head what people would want to see on film or in print. R: See from reading it, and seeing it and like expressing it, and you know it’s like kind of an art, it like evolves with you. And I don’t think you really know what people want, I think what you do is you get together with a group of people and you all give input, and you find what’s arousing, and entertaining, and it was more fun, and I think that’s what makes my movies good, it’s that the people really looked like they were enjoying themselves. It wasn’t a mechanical staging, which most the adult industry was, based on formulas. I: Yeah. R: All right, I made it more like parties, I would have like catering, I would bring all kinds of food, and we would come together, and we would just have a wonderful time, and I would create story lines but not orchestrate the fetish action. And I would hire a group of people, and then team them up according to who was attracted to who, and then we would have a pre-rehearsal, and then shoot it. So that we would know where we were going, and then I would get the pick-up shots after the fact, of what we need, so that we didn’t interrupt the actual fetish action, and people had fun. I: Oh, Very neat! Very neat. I think we definitely need to touch on Plato’s Retreat in New York City. It was such a huge thing, can you talk about your involvement with that a little bit? R: Yeah, it was the late ‘70’s, Larry Levinson and all these people grew up in Brooklyn, I was not part of their crowd because they were swingers, and I was very anti swinging myself. But I was very tolerant growing up in the ‘70’s and ‘60’s, the ‘70’s free love, and all that, that was all part of my peer group. It was a time when the gay community was coming out and asserting itself, and swingers were coming out of the closet and proclaiming themselves, and I was coming to terms with who I was, and not being ashamed that I was so assertive and aggressive myself, you know, and it was a little difficult saying “no” all the time, and I was razzed a lot because that was not the mood, mindset, of people. But me and these two women who knew Larry approached Larry and I said Look, I would like to do a special event here, once every two months. For singles. And he said, Well how are we going to get all singles in here and not have them going after the few women that are here, because you know the percentages are off, that’s why I had a couple’s thing, and all this, And I said, well, we’ll do a show, and we’ll keep them entertained, and we’ll give them food, and we’ll close the orgy room. You know, so there won’t be this, it won’t be a sexual thing, it will be primarily fetish. And what I did is I went into the underground community, and I got other mistresses that were going to perform, and certain submissives that were willing to exhibit themselves publicly, and I did get a couple of male masters that were in concert, like the, there was a publication at that time called “S/M Express” there were the Heartwells, and people like that, that were willing to participate and be part of it. And I did it through interpretive dance, with music. And we kept the intense heavy, heavy insertion or penetration type fantasies off the floor. And they were orchestrated to music, it was all timing, everyone was pre-rehearsed. And the University of Massachusetts sent some people down, and I got into their archives, as creating a new art form, it was well received. And there were certain things that were made extremely for the extremes, and extravaganza that were fake, staging. Bella du Jour had a slave, Donald, who was pierced in the penis, he removed his piercing, she would put lub caps under it, put a nail through the hole, and it would look like she was hammering his testicles to a board, so we got that exploitation in the news and places like that, and on television, that brought the people worldwide, I mean we had crowds of up to 1,000 coming to these parties. We did like the Laposh dance, the French Laposh dance, in reverse where the man used to throw the woman around the stage, we had the woman throw the man around the stage while they’re dancing, you know, all types of drama like that, with contemporary music, and it was a lot of fun. I: Did the entertainers ever get involved, who you paid to come and entertain… R: We didn’t pay them! No one was paid! I: Oh this was, they just came to educate… R: They all did it on a voluntary basis, to be able to do their scenario and be part of the show, and then partake in the party and the food and have a good time. I: So afterwards they would interact in… R: Socially with the people, and it was really a great coming out for the fetish scene, similar to what happened in the gay community in the beginning, where people felt that liberation where they could have dignity with their own sexuality, and come out and meet other people, and if you know about the Insonia Hotel before Plato’s had it, it used to be a gay bath and hotel, and then Plato’s took it, and it became a swinger’s club. So it was really the beginning, the Insonia Hotel was the beginning of open sexuality for a lot of different groups, the gay community, the hetero-swinger’s community and now the fetish community. Unfortunately with what happened with AIDS and everything else, the Insonia and different places got closed down. I: Yeah, the Mineshaft was the first, I think, in New York, and then Plato’s was shortly after that. Were you around during that time or involved when it got closed down? R: Yes, I was. R: Yes, I was. Well, I wasn’t there. I had walked away from the Plato’s parties after the ninth show, because what happens when you have something that’s successful and there’s a lot of money people want to exploit it. I: Oh, Yeah. R: OK, and I was starting to loose control of it. They were starting to draw people into the show that I had not rehearsed, I didn’t know what they were doing, one girl had been injured that was a friend of mine, I got very up set with that, there weren’t straight counts at the door, I was asking questions on the floor like what are we gonna pay in for taxes, what are the figures, and nobody would answer me, and I sort of, it left a bad taste in my mouth. So I let them know that I was going to claim all the money that I had earned, and that I was no longer interested, they were going to start, they were investing in a club called “Club O” with these two other women that were partners with me, and they really weren’t interested in me being a partner, because they were more into the money, exploitation, and I was more into the people. I: Yeah. R: And I didn’t kind of fit in anymore because everybody was going for the gold, and I was trying to hold it down to where it would be a resource for people to come out and really…not that I didn’t want to make money, but I wanted to do something positive with my life, and the industry, and I was…my primary motive was not just money, because if it was just money I could have went into the main stream industry with my intellect, and made more money! I: Doing more of a narrow focused, here’s what they want to see, let’s produce that… R: Yes! It’s just that! Whatever it was I could have made movies on golfing, you know. I could have done tournaments, anything, whatever it was you know because when you have certain skills for promotion, or art, if you’re an artist, you can create that art in any genre. That gives you the ability to express it in that medium. I: Yeah. R: But I had all this sexual passion repressed, and pent up, and this was a great avenue and market for me, and the timing was right because the ‘70’s was a time, like I said, when everybody was starting to come out of the closet. I: Yeah. So, I mean we look at publications back in the ‘60s, would you say the publications started? R: There were no fem-dom publications in the ‘60s. There was one called “Aggressive Women” that came out in the early ‘70’s, which had a female figure head called Barbara Barr who was married to the man who owned “House of Milan”, and he created latent image of all those male dom bondage publications that had women tied up, and “Aggressive Women” was just women posed in leather holding whips. That’s what they were all about, fem-dom. That’s all there was! And I wanted to express a little more. And since I was such a novice myself, and unaware of even my own interest, I reached out towards other women, like Bella du Jour, who was involved in TVs, and fetish, Monique Van Clique who was a mistress in New Jersey, who was run out of the country, she’s like the model of the fem-dom industry, she had to run to Amsterdam and live for over 14 years before she was admitted back in this country. Because of her activities in S and M, and B and D. So I met these women, and interviewed them, and got to know them, and I met other people underground, and helped and educated other women and allowed them to express themselves. I learned bondage and things from male doms, and gay men in the fetish industry, some of them transsexuals or pre-ops that were friends of mine, that are deceased now, some died, some didn’t die, some moved on or went, you know, into different areas of expression, as time goes on, you know, when you’re young we tend to have a wide range of friends, and as we get older we get more selective and I think a little less active. But I still think of all of them fondly, because they were all part of the evolution, and even, remember my sexuality was growing also! In the expression of all these publications, and art. I: The more you did the more you…. R: The more I understood about myself! And the more you learn about yourself, and other people. I: What a great way to grow. So you’re doing all these publications, and videos and the parties at Plato’s, can you talk about things you did to keep it out of trouble, or undercover, obviously there’s a lot of people even today who don’t like this type of material, and who would rather it didn’t exist. R: Well, I really didn’t do much to keep it undercover except live a conservative quiet life, dress conservatively in my own community, I never made myself publically known where I lived and doing what I did. I was raising two children, and I had to be very discrete. I’m a very well anchored person, and I understood main stream society because my family were Republicans, my dad was a plumbing engineer, he didn’t walk on the wild side, kind of thing, coming from Brooklyn, everybody is somehow involved, inadvertently, he with his gambling interests into the underground what they call organized crime and things like that, well everybody in Brooklyn knows about organized crime, or was part of it in some capacity, these people only hurt each other, they never hurt anyone outside of their own community, they were very generous in the community to people within the community, remember that, New York is an immigrant state, and most people come to places like the lower east side, Brooklyn, Queens, and places like that, from the other side they came into these communities. Even first generation Americans really never had the opportunities of getting the loans from banks and things like that, and the organized crime made money in things available to all these people. You did have to pay a higher interest rate, but you had the opportunity to borrow. OK, I even took advantage of it at one point, and got out of it rather quickly when I realized that, I went up on one of these guys, and I said to him, no I’m not paying you, I’ll pay you interest on the money I borrowed, but this beat thing’s gonna stop. And if you want to get a reputation for hurting women, go right ahead, and he just backed off, and I paid the value off, and it was over. You know, and I found out that they really, you know, it’s like all things in society, people pick their victims. You want to be a victim, somebody will oblige you. If you refuse to be a victim, people kind of back off even if you’re not as strong. I: Did you do a lot of research on the laws, censorship laws? R: Absolutely! I: What you could , and couldn’t do…. R: What I did was I read the penal code of New York to find out what my boundaries were in certain areas, because, you know, if you tie somebody up, and hit them, is it a crime? You know, that’s a big question. I: It is a question. R: OK, so then we came into the element of consenting sexuality. OK, And I have a lot of strong beliefs myself about what is consenting S and M, and what is abuse, and where the line is drawn, there are a lot of issues now that are coming into play, remember when I first started in the scene, all the submissive could say was “yes mistress” and you had to submit to whatever was delegated to her, now submissive have rights, they can search out a dom that they feel is suited to them, that there’s loving S and M, there are people into D S, dominating and submission, more of a loving, kind, nurturing relationship, then you have people who are into sadomasochism strictly for the pain, but it’s not in the terms of a serial killer who goes out and abducts their quarry, and victimizes them, or kills them, or harms them, it’s more people who interact, and find each other through quorums or groups, or societies, or organizations, that come together and talk. It’s controlled pain, it’s isolated to specific activities, if the individual likes perhaps spanking, some people are aroused by nipple play, I laugh when they say, “Well, I’m into CBT,” that’s cock bondage and torture, usually what they mean is they want their penis tied with ropes, and to be touched. Or little pinches. I: Wow. R: OK, but now there are medical fantasies that have gone past that level where people use sounds that were invasive, that go into the urethra, and things like that, things that in the beginning I was very reluctant until I met a lot of pro doms that are teaching and showing me, and I’m seeing that it really isn’t painful when I saw somebody administer a sound into the urethra or the male penis, that it was very arousing to the fellow, and it didn’t hurt him, so I don’t see why they call it CBT, but I think a lot of it is pomp and ceremony, and a lot of it has to do verbally, with just the psychological aspect that you’re being controlled. There are people that are into flagellation, and do like that pain, but they’re warmed up, and brought up to that level gradually, it’s more that they’re delighting in sensation. People use it, some people use it as a form of foreplay, before their sex, they just play around, I call them fetish swingers they’re really not into female supremacy, there are men that really just want to elevate women to a level of superiority. I’ve kind of fallen somewhere in the middle. I believe some women are worthy of being adored or worshipped as a superior intellect, they’re…?…I think it goes on a one by one basis, that people that are of high intellect, and superior mind, male or female, can have the capability of controlling people who are submissive, and they enjoy it, and don’t let it get to the point where they become too lofty or they loose their balance or sanity, that you have to question yourself first, and say is this a fractured ego that I need this? Or do I just enjoy this, and not really take it too seriously, I know the difference between the real world, and my fantasy life, there are people that have issues in this area. I: You think it’s a problem out there that there are people who… R: Oh yes! I: …either take it too… R: There are some people out there that will take advantage of submissive people, and have no cause or concern for them, and then there are other people that have very very fractured egos, that are using this where they should be getting therapy, and they should be getting themselves mended inside, and know that they are people of value, and that they don’t have to hurt other people to feel that they are people of value, you know, what’s happened is in my opinion, it’s not in all circles, but in my opinion, what has happened is you do have little groups of exploiters running certain organizations, that are using them like meat markets, seeking out the vulnerable that are first coming into the scene, and these are people, that’s why I say that the scene has to stand up, that male doms have got to recognize female doms, people have to come together. Not whether they’re gay, straight or bi, and they have to single out the abusers, and not identify themselves with the abusers. People have to clearly define, no we are not the conservative serial killers that go out and abduct children or adults, and tie them up, and harm them. We don’t believe that men that abuse their wives or their lovers are into the scene, they’re abusers! They’re cruel, mean people! And there is a big difference. I: We took a little while looking at your web site, and it seems like you’re trying to address this issue. It seems to me you’re trying to address this issue on your web site, and saying here are quality people, that have been tried and true in the scene and are not abusers, and who can recognize someone who might need therapy vs…. R: Well see there are a lot of people also that today would still be considered in need of therapy.…OK? The DNS entries, etc., but I have a theory about this, and I hope someday that we can move a little more to the center in this area, that whatever an individual’s sexual passion, if they can function in society, if they can contribute to society, if they do not initiate any great harm to themselves, or any individual, what titillates you is nothing new, all this has been going on since the beginning of time, maybe behind closed doors, but someday people are going to accept the dignity of human sexuality, no matter how varied or wide. I could turn around and say the Japanese have fetish, and I showed you downstairs, but their interests may not be in leather, maybe they don’t have that many cattle there that they have so much leather, but they have silk worms, so they have a lot of silk, they have satin, so they have bondage devices made out of satin, and things like that. They have a fetish which I’m not in concert with, asphyxiation with silk scarves. People who like to be brought to near death. Have their breath taken away. I don’t think it’s very safe to practice, personally, OK, but I would look into all these different areas of expression, and kind of say, well, where’s the history of this, how far back does this go, this has all been going on, I mean they have unearthed in Rome, archives, of stone dildos and things that have existed from the 15th, 14th centuries. Egyptian catechomes, where they had wooden dildos, and devices, torture has gone on, there has been slavery all through history. Unfortunately it has not been voluntary. Now we’re living in an age of voluntary submission, and willing submission, there are those that theorize that their souls are coming back again and again seeking the conditions of their past lives. All right? Who knows? I would rather say that we’re in a society of sensation where touching and feeling, people have become so desensitized, and their lives are so desensitized, people want to feel, they want to experience, and a caress, and a slap, can really stimulate the flesh, and make you feel, not real pain, both, nobody’s looking to have somebody slam them with a bat, and break their bones, but I think it could be a little titillating if somebody spanked you with an open hand. And then maybe rammed their finger nails on your buttocks, it could be extremely arousing, so human beings are maybe evolving more sexually, and more openly where they’re expressing themselves, and it might be also a little bit of a revolutionary attitude of the young, that they want to defy their parents, and go another step further, I mean, we all came from a generation of free love and freedom of expression, and coming out of the closet, and now we want to repress all these kids because of AIDS. All right, so they’re just finding other ways of expression with this vampirism, I mean we had so many Bella Lagosi movies, and Vincent Price movies, and we subjected these kids to all this stuff, Sci-Fi, everybody wants to be a star in their own drama, and there will always be extremes. And there will always be people that will take it a step too far for maybe you, or me, and each of us will find something unpleasant about somebody else’s sexuality. So we’re in an age of tolerance, but there have to be boundaries, there does have to be boundaries, medically for people’s safety, and primarily mentally. The victimization of individuals, worldwide has to stop, on a sexual level. It’s a predatory thing, and I don’t want to be sexist in this, but men primarily through centuries have been exploiting women, and younger men, and imposing their will and their violence on them. And I think that’s where women are serving themselves, and coming up, are gonna temper some of this. I’m hoping in this century, that women will take a more aggressive role in society. It’s slowly happening, but we know, secretly, that men are allowing us into the upper 10% just for the numbers, just like they used to say they kept the quota with the gay male, the black male, now they’re doing it with the token woman. Naturally, being very assertive and intellectual, this was an arena and an area where nobody could stop me! But now there’s a lot of men in this industry, that are exploiting female domination. So they found it to be a tremendous market. And a lot of them have tried to curb and repress me. Thus, I can’t get my publications out there, so I moved to the Internet. Because I would have to sell out my name, and everything, and then let them run the entire show, with me being a figurehead. And I wasn’t gonna go for that because the men who had given me my opportunity years ago have retired. And others have taken their place. And they don’t have the same camaraderie or affection for me, or respect for my work. Because they can get other men to produce it for them. You see? And that’s OK, that’s how the industry is, it always goes to the younger people, different things, different things, and I’ve moved to the Internet, I’m getting involved with women from all age groups. Because I don’t think that knowledge or sexuality is limited to the young or the old, I think we all learn from each other, and that it’s a funny thing, but nature doesn’t play the age game fairly. I: What do you mean by that? R: A 17 year old boy is at the peak of his sexuality, a woman in her mid 30’s is at the peak of her sexuality. It seems that in nature, just before you decline, you go through a second coming, OK, so it’s very likely that a 50 year old man could be turned on to a 30 year old girl, or a woman, or a 50 year old man could be turned onto a 17 year old, 18 year old guy, and there are different places in the world where ages are at different levels, and barriers, like in Amsterdam, or the middle east, And I’ve met women, girls of 16 that had more sexual experience than I did at the age of 50. So we have to really reassess this. No we don’t want to victimize the young, and the innocent, and there should be a learning process, and education available to people who want to seek this out at any age, to read about it, if they have the personal interest themselves. Or be guided towards places like the leather archives, and history areas of research, and it’s just going to take a lot of time, and patience, and people, and researchers moving in that direction. I: You know that’s just like in or society here. R: Right. The United States is backwards in our attitudes about sexuality. The Asians are more open, they expect diversity of people, in their nature, you know we have to understand that life is so varied, in insect life, and animal life, and every way you turn, why wouldn’t humans be? If someone is to be a snake, let them be a snake, if they’re supposed to be a butterfly, be a butterfly. And so it is with sexual nature. The animals do not discount homosexuality, or a black widow eating her mate, it’s all part of the evolution of nature. So we have to start understanding this stuff about our own human nature. And I don’t want to put religion down, because religion plays a big price in a lot of people’s lives, and gives them goals, and guidance, and every body needs spirituality… I: Oh, definitely. R: …Religion has been the main factor of sexual repression since the 15th century, that’s when sex became bad as you look in history in the 15th century, by Augustus who started all this, Saint Augustus … END SIDE ONE SIDE TWO R:…boundaries, as human beings, and has put the prejudice in our minds, to turn around and point finger at somebody else, because they’re different, and we’re all different, even if you come from the same race, the same religion, if you look into the inner recesses of each individual’s mind, if they will be free to express that, OK, most people are afraid to express what they really think. I: That’s a big hurdle. R: Every man has a fetish, even a heterosexual vanilla man, will turn around and tell you secretly, “I love high heels and stockings, women in high heels, that turns me on, that way.” He may not tell his wife. I: What a shame. R: Right. It’s a shame, but the reality is that most women have been repressed and taught that not to be tolerant sexuality, how they have to behave to be good, things are changing, and they’re going to continue to change, but religion now is putting up a big fight in this country, and they’ve gone political. And that’s a very bad thing when religion and politics come together. I: Very dangerous. R: And it’s very dangerous to all of us, on every level. Because when people, and you know with all respect to our government, I’m a Republican, and I do love the president, but he’s very family-oriented, and he’s dictative to people, all right? And what’s happening is we’re rolling back the pendulum, swinging the other way, it’s getting very dangerous, we may have to come to a point in time where we’re all going to have to stand and be counted, and we’re not going to have the kids to use them, like we did in the ‘60s, and ‘70’s to throw them out there. I: Right. R: Some of us are going to have to stand behind what we believe. And endorse these things. And help these people. Right now we have a gay lesbian in Pennsylvania who’s busting the pro doms. With her empathy of freedom of sexual expression for other women! I: Right, right. R: Because this is a political career for her! You know, men have always come together, to make money, for politics, they learned teamwork. Women are just learning. Women perceive other women as their competition and enemies. This century has got to change that! They have to see each other as sisters. Right now in the pro-dom community, I am trying, I’ve created the Women’s International Internet Network for that purpose. For women to come together, network socially, not necessarily endorse each other’s beliefs, but to learn first to be tolerant of each other’s beliefs. Acceptance? That may be another 75, 100 years for all of us. But maybe we can be examples to the younger people, and help bring these communities together. Now if the pro-dom community comes together maybe they can address themselves, to the male dom community. And then people in the heterosexual fetish community can start to assert themselves just as the gay community did, to gain respectability and dignity in their own sexuality. And that’s my position today. I: Well, it sounds like a key, or recipe for advancing, and fighting the forces that are…. R: Well nobody can do it all, but everybody can play a little part. I: Sure. R: In any way that they can. Even the man who lives a vanilla conservative life somewhere in Utah can endorse by giving a small donation to whatever group or association he believes in. Or support a publication by buying these magazines, or video, or endorse some fem-dom, somewhere in the country, by if it’s his interest to serve her, even if it’s via email. All these are ways of contributing. Hollywood is busting it right out of the closet. The kids, rock and roll, it’s all gone fetish. Who’s this one, Brittany… I: Brittany Spears? R: Brittany Spears! With that song about make me your slave. I: Oh! Love Slave, yeah. I don’t believe that! R: All this stuff is very erotic, but it’s very male-dominated, orientated, so it was accepted. I: Sure. R: OK, but whatever way it’s flavored, as long as people are becoming more aware, especially this country, remember, it’s very repressive. The Dutch, the Puritans, the English, are all part of our history, and it was all very sexually repressive. Catholicism, Christianity, Quakerism, so I mean we are moving forward, and we are changing, but only in the bigger cities. I: That’s where it started. R: OK, the smaller communities are still very negative, and people have to hide, even out here in Jackson, I’m not so fast even in the winter to run outside dressed in leather. I don’t need the attention of my neighbors. I: Sure. R: And if they ever came into this house, and saw that dungeon in my basement, or any of these things they’d be outraged. I: Sure. R: So I do stay very low profile. But on the Internet I have a very strong presence. And I plan to get up my fetish museum which will exploit female domination, and the artwork, as well as all the information that I’ve collected and saved, and allow people contemporarily today to contribute their materials. I: Very interesting. I got to see some of it already, and I’m looking forward to seeing some…. R: So Rick, that’s where we’re going and that’s what I’m all about, and if there’s anything else I can answer, if there anything else you want to know, let me know. I: Excellent R: Or if any of your researchers or anyone would like to call me, or get in touch, they could ask Rick, he’ll give you my information, you’re welcome to come look at my personal collection, I’ll be gathering a bunch of materials, and shipping them out to Rick for examination. I: Very excited to be receiving them. R: Let me shake your hand, it was nice meeting you. I: Thank you very much, Janus. End of interview. |
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